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Brain

Belief, and the outer limits of tulpamancy and hypnosis

What do you think?   17 members have voted

  1. 1. Observer mind, to trancer mind, to normal mind idea?

    • Yay
      12
    • Neigh
      5
  2. 2. Contract idea?

    • Yay
      9
    • Neigh
      8
  3. 3. Free[style] hypnosis idea?

    • Yay
      14
    • Neigh
      3

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

9 posts in this topic

How does one get better at something?

Belief curiosity desire inquiry practice.

Thats it.

 

Belief filters our approaches desires and curiosities.

 

If you do not tolerate a scientific perspective, you are restricting yourself.

If you do not tolerate a spiritual perspective, you are restricting yourself.

 

People view the two as incompatible. Thats not true.

 

What is countable, is repeated. What is repeated, can be measured, hence counted. If a certain event occurs more than once, we can learn from it if we observe properly and understand properly.

 

Preconceived notions get in the way of understanding from making an understanding incompatible. You think x cannot exist with y so look for z, when y might be the answer all along. But it never even occurs to you to look, because y doesn't exist to you, because you have not considered it might exist because you have no reason to because you do not believe in that manner.

 

So you do not learn, you do not practice, you do not succeed. Also learning =/= memorizing. Its understanding.

 

Now, you can get results without understanding, and comprehension takes more time. You could just do what others say and get results. But if you want to shoot for the stars, try whats not been done before, you need understanding, and you need to be able to pursue knowledge independently. Everyone learns differently, after all.

 

How many of you are spiritual, and did not try anything other than what others suggested?

 

As far as I am concerned, you can do three things.

 

Innovate invent and succeed at what others have not done before.

Do what others say, and succeed at what others have done before.

Fail, because you did not put enough time into one or the other.

 

In order to innovate you need to be creative and apply yourself, and experiment til you find whats optimal.

 

Because of the limited amount of people/ponies, and the limited time they have, experiments here amount to new styles of files or that hypnosis image cycling program. But without analytical and technical feedback, how can we ever optimize it as a science?

 

If theres a problem with science, its way too slow, uses way too much resources and time for a single individual to discover anything new.

 

What if we can learn what tulpamancy and hypnosis have in common? Then we can make a third discipline, or a fourth. We could do alot.

 

The problem is the effort and time. Science is like shooting in the dark, and hoping you hit your mark, then adjust your aim and try again, its guessing and checking. But, you can also do stuff like, listen to the acoustics to approximate where your shots are landing and calculate internally based on how it sounds, where to aim next.

 

And the spiritual belief in tulpamancy, gets rid of the connectivity it has to hypnosis. Hypnosis is tricking yourself, tulpamancy isn't?

 

I like psychology. And, granted, tulpamancy might just be like how eastern cultures tend to get positive delusions instead of negative, like their hallucinators get good spirits, instead of bad ones. Its because they do not believe in bad spirits, like christians might. Christians do, they think demons and satan are real. Eastern culture doesn't have that so much. So thats prolly why.

 

Belief is significant.

 

And well, how many of you want to try and invent something new? Have any ideas? Thats prolly the hardest part. Or why not have your tulpas do hypnosis for example?

 

Theres alot to explore. Is everyone satisfied with what they have?

 

I will try to think of something, otherwise, kinda pointless to put this spin on the topic right.

 

But, its a part of self-mastery, control over your own psychology. 

 

Now I think of a 'contract' to write out. For those who are scientific, people need to be precise and thorough, not just jump the gun. And the contract is to counter innate skepticism.

 

Its like this, I think tulpamancy is me tricking my mind, I do not believe its a seperate entity, I think its a psychological effect. Thus the 'contract' is just me being thorough to give myself the chance to experience a tulpa anyways.

 

Like

 

Quote

Tulpa are a part of my mind or subconscious mind. They are not real in the spiritual sense, but I am going to try and gain a tulpa. My base instinct is its just a trick, its a lie, etc. Its not a trick or a lie, its an experiment to be able to experience something greater. It is my mind, but it can still feel like its not my mind. If it makes me uncomfortable, I might try and control the tulpa because i think its a part of my mind. If I do not ever become uncomfortable with the tulpa, its not a real tulpa so much as a highly programmed mind robot. So I have a solution, I will instead when I am uncomfortable, request some space, and the tulpa will because its in their contract. They can have their own feelings about that, they can see why I need the space tho, so agree to it because otherwise would be detrimental.

 

Etc etc to cover all potential problems with the scientific version.

 

 

 

But now back to progress. Hypnosis is personality change, and perception of body change. Tulpamancy is sorta like a forced dissociation. 

 

The limit to the files, currently, is that experiences are limited to culture, and the experience files themselves in relation to your other effects.

 

Those who do self hypnosis are more flexible, and so thats what I should promote for you to do instead of over-reliance on files.

 

Aha I thought of something. A mind radio could be programmed, dream theaters could be programmed. Even going over a file without the file, or making a new one on the fly to suit your needs.

 

Just imagine a full lucid dream VR with a shitload of any kind of features you want. 

 

You can do self-hypnosis and tulpamancy-like practices for those. 

 

Granted, tricking yourself into thinking its music, is far easier than doing *auto-compose* in your mind.

 

Another idea is using hypnosis to be able to calculate math in your brain quickly, as in, the answer just pops up, you don't do the math consciously. 

 

Another idea, is a memory viewer full immersion, or partial immersion thing. You can re-experience your favorite things. Then, also, you can do something like experience files using a variation of that technique, and make it up on the fly in your mind. 

 

But in order to do these things, we could ask how does hypnosis work, and how does tulpamancy work? What do they have in common, how do they differ? Why the differences? If you can answer that you understand it.

 

So why do like, a one on one session, if everyone can do self-hypnosis and such? Granted, a one on one might still be fun or help etc. But this gives more potential.

 

Also, lets say you fall into a comic like the power ponies, and you have the power to change your brain how you like. But before you do, you know to look before you leap to prevent problems, instead of needing to pick yourself back up again. 

 

Its about self understanding, but trance is a subconscious thing more often right? So, we need a solution for that, and thats to be aware and feel the changes your trances do, so you can have your mind self aware, AND trancing AND have it not impair your trance.

 

This means you need the normal mind surrounded by the trancing mind, causing the normal mind to trance, while the trancing mind only functions to keep your normal mind in trance, while you have an observer mind giving suggestions on the trancing mind's suggestions to the normal mind. 

 

And thats similar to tulpamancy, because its multiple of your own minds, in your head. Thats the ultimate self-hypnosis free-style, you can do anything with it, AND have no consequences for it, because of the observer mind keeping you in check and looking before you leap. So you don't need to get impaired.

 

Let me know if this sorta stuff interests you.

Just keep in mind, I haven't been trying hypnosis lately. I do love me some psychology tho. But I do not promise how active I will be, but this change I think would be magnificent for the community to undergo. Its free[style]-hypnosis without limits, its mind-mastery, self-mastery. It could be very radical.

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On 4/24/2017 at 10:43 AM, Elusive said:

This is quite interesting..

Thanks. If I know people are interested I may want to write a more thorough idea topic over contracts or the like. Which is why the journals in this forum are somewhat lame, people feel its rude to reply to a journal, hence I am doing my brainstorming in this forum area now.

 

I may want to elaborate about this for how I would approach it more in-depth or technically. But keep in mind I generally don't practice this, but I do like some psychology. A concern for myself is time spent inactive for when I do files, so if I experiment its probably going to be when I try and sleep more than any other time. But I do have plenty of time in the day I could prolly try this stuff more if I want. 

 

1. contracts.

2. auto-self hypnosis (triple mind idea)

3. positive and negative reinforcement

4. anchoring and association (which needs positive reinforcement)

5. experimenting safely and successfully (brainstorming/theorizing/speculating over this, and some practice on my own when I gain interest)

6. The role of attention types in reinforcement

7. Importance of Practice (compare to sc2 prolly)

 

Those are things I may be interested in 'lecturing' theorizing etc about. I also need to brainstorm my goals, or I won't have proper motivation to do more than just theory. 

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Posted (edited)

I think its important to know yourself before hypnosis because if you have a goal that are harder to realize your personal dilemmas might hinder it, if you have any.

Accidentally conflating others with myself/my problems/selfpsychoanalysis. 

Edited by Brain

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Posted (edited)

Ok people don't seem to like the contract idea, its simple enough anyways, its just you prolly wanna be closer to trance when you make the oath or declarations etc. You can't be in the middle of deciding when you do it, you need to write it all out first.

 

Alright, so, freestyle hypnosis. 

 

There are two types of conditioning to use, classical and operant conditioning. The slower your brainwaves, the more effective the conditioning, but you can't freestyle easily unless you are in trance, or in a pattern that brings up trance periodically (theta brainwaves). To clarify theta is like imagination brainwaves n stuff, but trance is deeper than that.

 

Like you can imagine, while doing other stuff, thats beta and theta at the same time, like if you are in a roleplay while at work to make the time go by easier by pretending you are working for some other purpose or etc makes it easier to do your job. That sorta scenario you would have beta n theta. Dungeons n Dragons sorta stuff is probably closer to alpha+theta. Alpha is for attentive learning, beta is for doing work, gamma is the fastest and its basically more responsive like for sports n such. Then deep hypnosis is delta brainwaves, and delta and gamma can be similar but gamma is very very fast when it looks similar to delta, and delta is very very slow. Like the difference between adding up all your synapse firings in your brain during ping pong, comparing it to a resting heartbeat or something.

 

Anyways.  The trick to believing you are what you want to be, is to make reality not contradict it, and to make it so all information that you absorb, reaffirms what you want to believe in the moment. Also, you need to have the observer mind overlap, so you can be safe while experimenting, don't need to eat unedibles or jump off a roof trying to fly etc.

 

So how I would approach this is, associate the real tangible consequences to your actions subconsciously, but consciously think declarations that you want to believe. Like you are a pegasus on a roof, you know jumping off is bad intuitively, so your behavior gets directed elsewhere. A tool for this is making myths up on the sport (imagination is theta brainwaves, similar to trance) So you make up a myth why you cannot jump off the roof. Make sure it is an isolated myth restricted to 'places you could fall and get hurt' otherwise you could get distracted, also you need to accept the myth for what it is, rather than view it as an enemy to be defied, because you might try to conquer it for example, then jump off specifically because you conquered the negative mythos.

 

So whenever you feel any sensation, use it as evidence of your form. Like, the wind in your hair or on your neck  mane. Automatically associate your skin, with a coat, or wings and horn etc, chitin if you are a changeling etc. Any inconsistencies, rationalize away. Like, chitin, it doesn't have neuron density, why is my chitin so sensitive, like skin? Because magic, obv lol. Chitin is not disadvantaged.

 

View every 'obstacle' as an opportunity to assert your form more. View happenings in 'pony vision' or whatnot. Like you go to a store, if you don't want to grab your wallet with your mouth and embarrass yourself for 10 minutes, you can associate the normal activity, to the response you prefer. Like your wallet is your hammer space for your bits in your tail or such, your hand is your 'mouth' temporarily. Not that it has to get deformed or weird or anything, just associating it differently. But because that situation might have a weird association, a way around that is to just do it, and assume its natural to grab your wallet, and save the memory differently after the fact, and be unaware of that process, so when asked you did get it with your mouth, but you don't get it with your mouth (who wants strep throat anyways lol). So you basically save the data after the fact through imagination of what actually happened.

 

You need to form this habit, of fitting the details of reality into your form and world etc, the more you do it the easier it becomes, and every association and stimuli of real life, is a tool to use for your improvisational hypnosis. And it doesn't matter if its 'real' or not, what matters is you can do it and you enjoy doing it, so why not do it. Always assume everything reconfirms your forms, so you can end up bringing the improv into a faster subconscious process or such. Just keep everything canon, also any inconsistencies that may arise you need to basically address to make it more believable or engaging. Basically inventing lore stories canon for yourself etc.

 

Also keep in mind when people you meet might have different pony forms than you initially imagine when they reveal their ocs or such. So saving data in your mind in a general way, or leaving others as humans until specified otherwise may be preferable. And you might wanna save yourself the embarrassment of saying 'hey that pony over there' when they are a griffon, or a human etc. Human is a safe default until you know otherwise.

 

So in summary the goal of this process is to be relatively normal still, but associate everything as more engaging or fantastic, which you could always take advantage of on your free time and to be your OC and everything is an opportunity to reconfirm your identity. So any obstacles that happen you won't do anything very unrealistic with, like thinking the large freezer is a portal or something to antarctica and you wanna give a try at ice-fishing or something, then freeze to death trapped in 'antarctica' lol. So this way you do something normal instead, like you translate what you do thats normal, into something fantastic. Also reality does not contradict anything you do, because theres always a flexible way to reaffirm what you want reality to be like thanks to creativity and imagination.

 

Where you decide to take it is up to you, if you want my thoughts on anything feel free to ask.

Edited by Brain

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Posted (edited)

I just realized, that the studies don't really measure the level of consciousness or planning a non-human does for operant conditioning or classical conditioning, so we might need to actually not only reward ourselves or show an association, but expect the association to occur and plan on it occurring and to plan on the reward happening. Any kind of motivation that won't burn you out should work too.

Edited by Brain

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On 4/23/2017 at 8:59 PM, Brain said:

Hypnosis is tricking yourself, tulpamancy isn't?

Yes. But also no. Unless hooflock is something you can break just by pausing for a second and thinking "this is silly" Hypnosis is also not tricking yourself in all cases. I can't speak for all tulpas, but I think about tulpamancy as the product of imagination, but not imagination itself. Imagination could be seen as tricking yourself.

 

On 4/23/2017 at 8:59 PM, Brain said:

Or why not have your tulpas do hypnosis for example?

 

Been there done that. Still looking into it though.

 

On 4/23/2017 at 8:59 PM, Brain said:

Hypnosis is personality change, and perception of body change. Tulpamancy is sorta like a forced dissociation. 

Yes. But also no. Personality change can be a form of dissociation. Changes to perception can be a form of dissociation. A tulpa may not qualify as dissociation in their entirety. Usually they are more like a person than a dissociative event.

 

On 4/23/2017 at 8:59 PM, Brain said:

So, we need a solution for that, and thats to be aware and feel the changes your trances do, so you can have your mind self aware, AND trancing AND have it not impair your trance.

 

But how? That would require having more than one mind in your head.

 

The contract idea could work. But normally, tulpa stuff is handled in a more organic way, like a relationship between friends. The contract stuff is more common when working with servitors like the ones you mentioned (music playing construct, dream theatre ect...)

 

 

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Posted (edited)

On 5/24/2017 at 2:53 AM, tulpabug said:

Yes. But also no. Unless hooflock is something you can break just by pausing for a second and thinking "this is silly" Hypnosis is also not tricking yourself in all cases. I can't speak for all tulpas, but I think about tulpamancy as the product of imagination, but not imagination itself. Imagination could be seen as tricking yourself.

 

Been there done that. Still looking into it though.

 

Yes. But also no. Personality change can be a form of dissociation. Changes to perception can be a form of dissociation. A tulpa may not qualify as dissociation in their entirety. Usually they are more like a person than a dissociative event.

 

But how? That would require having more than one mind in your head.

 

The contract idea could work. But normally, tulpa stuff is handled in a more organic way, like a relationship between friends. The contract stuff is more common when working with servitors like the ones you mentioned (music playing construct, dream theatre ect...)

 

 

I like replies~.

 

Why can't we have more than one mind in our head? Some people do things like letting their tulpas control them, I am sure if they wanted to they could both pilot their body, it'd just take some getting used to. Unless it'd cause a pseudo-ekp I guess.

 

Well I was thinking before tulpa formation to help direct it. Like a servitor egg giving birth to a species of tulpa you prefer. Like imagine having a Pinkie Tulpa constantly distracting you and you don't want to crash your car, I mean, yeah we could prolly just discuss it with Pinkie but what if they disagree or forget or are also distracted? You have more experience tho so I am valuing your input, what you said makes sense, but Pinkie and others may be exceptions in some scenarios, getting them to stop could hurt their feelings, tho some would prolly find it cute if that happened. 

 

Well when I listened to files I got hooflock once but it as from a Pinkie file, so my hooves were stretchy and I could use them like fingers anyways. Since then I over-listened to the files and my brain is sorta bored with them, so I would be distracted while listening or reinterpreting the mentioned stimuli as I please or putting stipulations on it as I listen. I think its how my adhd works actually, once I understand something my performance tends to level out and I lose interest. 

 

More about the hooflock example, I imagine the brain is restricted, like, lets say you are in trance enough to get hooflock, but not enough so you are incapable of every day activities. I would think the mind exerting the hooflock bit is like a rearranged pattern or circuit, that is always running, and the rest of the brain is fluid changing responsive etc. Like that segment of the brain is in trance, and the rest are not, with brainwaves this could make some sense as its possible to have multiple types going at once, and gamma which is super fast (and trance=theta=moderately slow) and more for reactive sports and such. Like, a piece of machinery on an ever-shifting robot in a repeating pattern, and the rest are relatively unrepeating dependent on environment. So, if I had to devise a manner to relieve myself of hooflock it'd be doing a deep daydream and a situation that removes the hoof lock via story. If one is experienced at mind alterations enough theoretically they could cancel it out swiftly. And this ties into the constant daydream/hypnosis idea, whenever theres a problem you change the happenings to fit both reality and what you want your hypnosis to be. 

 

And personally I used to alter suggestions mid-suggestions during files to prevent any problems I may have wanted to prevent, like not reducing my ability to walk around on two legs thank you very much. And the story thing can free-style fix mistakes if it ever got in practice.

Edited by Brain

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Ok I realized a flaw in one of my logics.

Which is if we have a tulpa and its distracting that means our working memory is low, one should try and get better health n sleep, and having a tulpa with proper corpus callosum health would actually increase working memory through practice.

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